Precise location of Rapido crossings

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ropey	Precise location of Rapido crossings	Lead	[-]
Posts: 6 (07/22/07 05:13:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Hi I am visiting Cassino next month and wondered if anyone had a map or plan showing the [i]exact[/i] location of the crossing points? Books make general reference to "the S Bend" to the north of Sant'Angelo, but where in the S bend? And where was the Bailey bridge intended to go? And where was the southern crossing attempted? I found a British report that talks about finding American equipment close to the site of their 'Blackwater' bridge in May, but again it is a general location. If anyone has discovered an engineers' report, or a map, or perhaps even an aerial photograph that shows the exact crossing points I would love to hear from you.
pstickle	Re: Precise location of Rapido crossings	#1	[-]
Posts: 966 (07/22/07 13:07:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There are some books that can be helpful........you might check ebay for some of them: Bloody River by Martin Bluemenson River Swift and Deadly by Lee Carraway Smith From Texas to Rome by Fred Walker The Texas Army by Robert Wagner I have the AAR's for the 141st which cover the Rapido River. Tomorrow I will have time to scan some of the maps and aerial views that I have. I can also send you current day photos of the river and San Angelo from my trips there. Make sure you visit the War Museum in Cassino....it's pretty nice and they have a great restaurant there. Also take the time to drive just and handful of miles down to San Pietro and visit the ruins there. They have been very busy building a museum, educational center/experience. I can put you in touch with the local Mayor and Historians there and they would be more than happy to show you around. Was your family member at Rapido River? There is a 36th Monument in the tiny little town square overlooking the river. pstickle Daughter of T Patcher William G. "Gregg" Wiley, 141st I pgs@satx.rr.com
Rufus Lester	Re: Precise location of Rapido crossings	#2	[-]
Posts: 112 (07/22/07 18:01:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ropey, I can help you precisely. Sharon Lawrence contacted me recently to work with her for the Texas Military Forces Museum to make flyers explaining the Rapido River and the Velletri Dioramas. We did that and I understand that as soon as DR. David Beer edits the flyers they will be offered on a stand by each diorama. I was there at the river January 20, 1944 and have our battalion's Field Order and our historical narrative. More than that I have the actual map of the river and can send you email a copy of that S bend and the flyer which answers your question about the Bailey Bridge. Send me your email address at gett636@gvtc.com. You can also get a picture of the river on Google Earth today the S bend is just west of the toe of Mount Trocchio, and northwest thesmall hill La Pieta where we were. Les
ropey		#3	[-]
Posts: 2 (12/31/07 12:42:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks. I will take you both up on your generous offers of info.
Custermen	Maps	#4	[-]
Posts: 61 (01/03/08 15:57:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Someone was selling some tactical maps on ebay. I tried to bid on them but lost out. One group included some maps around the Cassino area. Not sure if they covered the town & British sector or further west where the Rappido crossing was. Another set of maps that are available are Road Maps that were printed during the war in a set of 30 for all of Italy and Sicily. These maps are larger scale: 1:200,000 but they have good terrain features. I have the road maps that include Salerno beaches, Cassino and Rome. Steve PS: Hey! It works! Just wanted to try out the new forum format. I'll try inserting an image.
Custermen		#5	[-]
Posts: 62 (01/04/08 09:50:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A map of the area just south of the town of Cassino, showing the Gari and Rappido Rivers and the valley around San Angelo where the 36th Division fought. Okay---this didn't work like I thought it would. I guess this map was converted into an Avatar. Maybe this will work. Here is a color scan of the Road Map Sheet #17, the very lower RH corner. The Rapido River is the one that goes south from the town of Cassino, through S.Angelo and joins with the Garigliano and Liri Rivers just above town of S. Ambrogio. It is labeled R. Gari. The town of Cassino is labeled in large letters. The Abbey is labeled as Abbazia di Montecassino, and further north is the prominent peak Monte Cairo Further to the right is Monte Sammucro and the town of San Pietro Infine, where the 36th Division had a previous battle. Steve Last Edited By: Custermen 01/06/08 13:32:30. Edited 3 times.
ropey		#6	[-]
Posts: 3 (01/06/08 15:54:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks Custermen and Rufus. The thing is, I have details of the exact placements for the British bridges (+- 10m) and have visited each of these, and on my next visit to the archives in London I will have the infantry crossing points for the British to +- 10m as well. However the nearest descriptions I have of the US crossings is "the S bend" both north and south of Sant'Angelo. Someone out there in the USA must have a map that shows the US crossing points in the same detail as for the Brits, but if they do I haven't tracked 'em down yet! PS is Pstickle still active on the forum?
pstickle		#7	[-]
Posts: 1 (01/06/08 19:14:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am here! I have been busy during the holidays and now hopefully will have some time to get active here again. pstickle
pstickle		#8	[-]
Posts: 2 (01/08/08 17:21:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In the book 'A River Swift and Deadly', Lee Carraway Smith has several photos that pinpoint the 's' curve. If you are standing in the little town square of Sant' Angelo overlooking the river, the 's' curve is to your right. It starts down river, on your right, and past the bridge. If you are standing in Sant' Angelo, the 36th was on the OTHER side of the river. The 's' curve is more towards the direction of Cassino. pstickle
Rufus Lester	Precise Location of the Rapido S Bend	#9	[-]
Posts: 112 (01/11/08 00:21:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Patti I made a quick reply to Ropey and it was deleted. I am still using the same name and password. I do not understand why this is a problem, I have the actual maps of the area, and Patti you have a copy showing the S bend just due west of the Southwest end of MT Trocchio. I was there at the small Mount La Pieta where our six M-5 Light Tanks were. The S Bend is the 141st RCT crossing point and La Pieta is just a little southeast of it. Ropey I made copies of the S Bend area on the 1:50,000 Overprinted II Corp Map for January 1, 1944 to send you and no response. My contact email is gett636@GVTC.com email me. Les Leggett
ropey		#10	[-]
Posts: 4 (02/14/08 16:16:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks Pstickle for pointing to the book - I'll see if I can track it down. Les, I sent a reply on 30/12/07 with thanks and comment. Did this not come through to you? I've driven around La Pieta, and our own Maori Battalion took over the area from the 36th. It is interesting that you have pointed to the northern-most bend of the S bend north of Sant'Angelo. A British bridge was planned for the 'point' of the southern bend in this S, but their infantry crossing points were in the flatter section closer to Sant'Angelo. Can anyone explain to me what considerations are made when picking a crossing point? The southern crossing points are less well defined. They are referred to as being in another S bend several hundred metres from San Angelo. But which parts of this S bend? Then there is the question of the treadway bridges for each Regt area and the Bailey bridge. Bloody River describes Martin trying to force the construction of an assault Bailey against the established order of things. Where was this attempted? Where were the treadways planned? For that matter, where were the footbridges - as opposed to the boat launching points - located for either attack? I can't imagine they would be built too close to each other as this would be too good a target for artillery fire, and I also realise that the exact locations may not be known, but the planned positions might be in a document somewhere... I don't suppose the AARs shed any light on these questions PStickle? As always, thanks for al your help.
ropey	Locations	#11	[-]
Posts: 5 (04/07/08 16:09:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Just to give something back, I found references to the crossing places in a British X Corp Sit Rep in W170_302 Appx A-81 in the Brit National Archives. They give an idea of crossing places but are not complete and would need to be corroborated. Note that they refer to the military maps not the grid on the map posted here. 141st Regt: Given as GR 865175 - this is where bend flattens out (near later Congo site). Foot bridge given as 867172. A later patrol attempted to cross at 866173. (These are about 8717 on the map posted here.) 143rd Regt: Maps are vague to say the least. WO170/302 says GR 862146 and 860148-860132. (These are about 8614 on the map posted here.)
hclaudon	Rapido river	#12	[-]
Posts: 43 (04/08/08 02:44:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello, I don't arrive to see your map, can you insert in as a photo or a scan ? I don't know why I can't see PJ ? Thanks, Hervé.
ropey		#13	[-]
Posts: 6 (06/08/08 12:18:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	No maps (except from Rufus, so you might like to ask him), just references above. I'm typing this just up the valley from Cassino, in a village called Caprile. Next week we stay in Fondi, a village liberated by the 85th Div I believe. (Possibly 88th though.) BTW, the intended bridges were to be named HARVARD and YALE, and it was HARVARD that was begun.

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