Hi. I have been doing a little research on my father in law, Sgt William J. Jones (Company A, 111th combat engineers). My nephew wrote an article about his
Grandfather a few years back after he interviewed him for a school project. In the article he mentioned that his grandfather( my father in law) was a ranger. I
asked my father in law, ( whom I will call dad) about it. Dad said that he was not a ranger but he did have ranger training here in the states. Anyway, before
I asked dad about it, I found this on US Army Ranger Association website. Check it out, it is about the 36th Combat Engineers. Go to www.ranger.org then go to ranger history-ww2 and read this article about the rangers and Col Darby. Does anyone know who the
T-Patchers (along with 509Parachute,83rd Chem. Warfare,4.2 Mortor Battalions) that were designated as the 6615 Ranger Force? Thanks, Earl
0 Kudo
WW2 Rangers
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 earl375 |
WW2 Rangers |
Lead | |
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Posts: 13 (03/30/08 22:11:39) |
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Charles Glover |
Rangers | ||
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Posts: 14 (06/03/08 06:29:17) |
My uncle was used by the rangers as a first scout. He was with the 143rd and KIA on Dec. 18th 1943. He served in Africa with the 3rd Ranger Division and was
missing in action for a week or so. From what I found out he landed with the rangers at Salerno, and rejoined the 143rd at San Petrio where he was killed.
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SGM Ron Graves |
Rangers in World War II | ||
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Posts: 361 (06/04/08 09:51:59) |
The original Ranger battalions under LTC Darby trained in Scotland and were volunteers from many units, most of which were already in the general area of
Scotland, Wales. Ireland, and England. When the invasion of Italy was initiated, COL Darby and some of his Rangers plus British Commandos landed at Maiori on
the northern end of the Salerno elements. MG Walker was asked to reinforce Darby and MG Walker sent his son, LTC Fred Walker Jr, and hs command, 1st Battalion
143d Infantry as the reinforcements. Many Soldiers were provided modified ranger training inorder to enhance their recon and patrol capabilities.
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Custermen |
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Posts: 65 (06/15/08 20:22:41) |
Hi Earl, My uncle, Jimmie Hill, served in Co L, 142nd Regiment, and was captured at Salerno. When I was young, I would ask him about his service in WW2 and he
would usually reply saying that he forgot. He did say that he was a ranger. That always confused me. I didn't think that soldiers received ranger training
unless they were assigned to a Ranger Battalion. I'm not sure what he meant by this unless the soldiers used "ranger" when referring to anyone
who had special training for assaulting a position. Steve Cole
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earl375 |
rangers | ||
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Posts: 15 (06/16/08 01:25:49) |
Hi Charles. My father-in-law was also in Africa. He made sergent there, after his sergent was killed removing a land mine. He missed the assult landing in
Italy because he had malaria and was in a hospital (converted schoolhouse) in Rabat. He was later flown into Italy to meet up with his platoon. He was at
Rapido River and went through Italy and then into Southern France where he was captured by the Germans and taken prisoner near Bonlieu, France. Your uncle made
the ultimite sacrifice so that we could be free and I thank your family for that freedom. These guys made history which paved the way for our futures. I
wonder if the after action reports show your uncles unit being attached to the Rangers? It seems like there would be a list of names, who were rangers during
WW2 out there somewhere. Thanks for your reply. Earl
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earl375 |
rangers | ||
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Posts: 16 (06/16/08 23:30:31) |
Hi SGM Ron Graves, Thank You for the information. It may have been some kind of modified ranger training that he had? He said he had it in Hyannas,Cape Cod,
Mass. he thought. He said that the training taught him alot about close hand to hand combat. To me, as I try to trace his footsteps of war,the rangers were
nearby or in the same areas quite often. He has a picture of himself and another American soldier, with a soldier in a kilt standing in the middle of them. He
said that the picture was taken in North Africa and that the man in the kilt was from a group called "the Ladies From Hell". So was this soldier a
commando or ? My father in law always seems (to me) like he is holding something back and sometimes gives us little clues for us to piece things together. He
is almost 88 and he has his good days and bad days do to his poor health. If he had this type of special training, That may be why he made it through his war
experiences. I don't know for sure though. Thank you for your reply and I'am sorry it took so long to get back to you. son in law of a T-Patcher
Earl
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earl375 |
rangers | ||
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Posts: 17 (06/17/08 00:13:05) |
Hi Steve. I kind of believe as you do at this time. I have not been able to find any real proof that he was a ranger. I read somewhere that they did have some
sort of ranger type training in the states early on and then dropped it until training began in Scottland and other places with commandos training our guys as
SGM Ron Graves had stated in his message. I have also read somewhere that a group of rangers were made up of some our guys and some Canadians who were trained
here in the states also. Maybe these guys were sworn not to speak about it or maybe it is still classified info even after so many years. You would think that
the rangers would have a roster of all men who served as rangers during WW2 and they may have. I have not had the time to check for one yet. Thank You for
your reply Steve and I think that I read on the web about Jimmy Hill and I will go back and read it again. Thanks , Earl
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SGM Ron Graves |
Rangers | ||
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Posts: 362 (06/17/08 12:11:45) |
A decent article about the beginnings of the Rangers in World War II can be found: http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/King/King.asp#ORR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Rangers http://www.soc.mil/75thrr/75thrrww2.html
SGM (Ret) Ron Graves |
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earl375 |
rangers | ||
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Posts: 18 (06/18/08 20:55:31) |
Hi SGM Ron Graves. Thanks for the web link. I will make sure and check it out. Thanks, Earl
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earl375 |
Rangers | ||
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Posts: 19 (06/19/08 18:30:33) |
SGM Ron Graves Hi Ron. After reading the article about the Rangers from the first web site that you had listed, I am inclined to believe
that my father in law (Sgt. William J. Jones) was a Ranger or at least trained with them during his service in Africa. Dad enlisted 26 Feb 1942 in Detroit
Michigan. On his DD214, he is credited for the Tunisian Campaign, Naples-Foggia Campaign, Rome-Arno Campaign and the Southern France Campaign. He was captured
in Bonlieu, France on 25 Aug 1944 and taken to Stalag 3C prision camp. Dad will be 88 on 15 Aug. 2008. A few months ago, I had asked dad how he had become
a sargent? His reply was " mine was blown up" . I ask how? and he replied " he was removing a land mine and it went off ". Where? North
Africa in the dessert and he could not remember the nearest town. Was this the mine incident in the article? He mentioned seeing General Patton around a couple
of times and he mentioned that he had walked through Sicily and did not see any action. He caught Malaria in North Africa and spent time in a Rabat Hospital
(converted schoolhouse). He missed the assult landing at Salerno (do to Malaria) and was flown in to meet up with his group. He fought at Rapido River and
later recieved a Commendation for that time period. I have another message board with a brief overview of his Commendation. Some of this just seems to familar
with the article. I will read more. Thanks Ron, Earl
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pstickle |
ranger training | ||
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Posts: 947 (06/20/08 12:59:15) |
Hi Earl,
In the many items of my Dad's collection from the war, there was a certificate that I had never seen before. It states: 'This is to certify that William G. Wiley has successfully completed the training prescribed for RANGERS in the THIRTY-SIX DIVISION and is authorized to wear the distinctive identification awarded therefore. This seventh day of January, 1943 at Camp Edwards, Massachusetts.' It is a certificate that could be framed, the outer border has a rope tied and there is a very large hand knife, one that the handle has four holes in it......looks like a small bayonet. My Dad was also in North Africa, and landed at Salerno and fought up through Italy. He fought in the infantry, and was never a 'Ranger', as in Darby's Rangers. I can tell you he was a great shot with a gun.........could hit anything at target practice. pstickle Daughter of T Patcher William G. "Gregg" Wiley, 141st I If you think seeing the document might help your father-in-law's memory, I can email it to you. |
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TexasIDson |
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Posts: 13 (06/20/08 19:12:40) |
The term 'The Ladies from Hell' was a familiar term for most soldiers of the Scotish infantry regiments. |
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earl375 |
Rangers | ||
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Posts: 20 (06/20/08 21:44:02) |
Hi Patti, That would be great if you could do that. I will show it to him on one of his good days and see what he says. I hope it will jog his memory like the
other articles that you have sent me to show to him. Thank You, Earl
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stever126 |
General Walker | ||
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Posts: 108 (06/21/08 10:16:39) |
Greetings to all,
I value your opinion greatly. As a true historian and a military expert, could you define how history has treated MG Walker. This was a great man and leader
of the 36th. The fact that he was "hung out to dry" by Generals Clark and Keys had to be a terrible injustice. After the "capture" of
Rome, Clark had the press and Walker was sent stateside. To rectify his place in history I believe he was sent to Ft Benning to command the Infantry Training
Center. Does this not confirm that he was a great leader and knew more about commanding infantry than Clark ever thought he knew ??
Last Edited By: stever126
06/21/08 10:26:20.
Edited 4 times.
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SGM Ron Graves |
General Walker | ||
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Posts: 363 (06/23/08 06:37:36) |
Thank you for those kind comments. In my opinion based on numerous comments from 36th ID veterans from World War II, GEN Walker had a charismatic attitude
similar to Robert E. Lee. The troops loved him and would have followed him anywhere. When he was relieved of command of the 36th, it appeared that his
illustrious career would end. Apparently, however, someone at the top (probably General of the Armies George C. Marshall) felt that the experience, knowledge,
and leadership of GEN Walker was a tool not to be discarded. GEN Walker went to Fort Benning GA and became the Chief of Infantry and the Commandant of Fort
Benning. This position made him responsible for officer training and infantry training Army wide. Yes, I believe the reason he was sent to Fort Benning and
not to reirement is because he was respected at the top, by leadership that actually understood leadership. His transfer to this position added in our victory
during World War II. GEN Walker returned to leading not only the 36th but the entire Texas National Guard after World War II as the Adjutant General. From my
readings and interviews, he was a truly remarkable leader and would have been an asset at any level within the War Department structure.
Last Edited By: SGM Ron Graves
06/23/08 10:27:51.
Edited 3 times.
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stever126 |
General Walker | ||
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Posts: 109 (06/23/08 22:58:00) |
SGM Graves,
Thank you for your response. I also found in my research General Walker was charismatic and a soldiers general. I found it dificult that Gen Walker sent his wife a letter prior to the Rapido fiasco, that it was doomed to failure based on sound infantry tatics. This after much "heated" discussions with Clark and Keys. MANY well trained brave soldiers were ....... just wasted, it's all you can say. Best Regards Sir, Steve |
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Custermen |
1st SSF & Ranger Battalions | ||
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Posts: 66 (06/26/08 20:09:18) |
I have also read somewhere that a group of rangers were made up of some our guys and some Canadians who were trained here in the states also. Maybe these guys were sworn not to speak about it or maybe it is still classified info even after so many years.Earl, That was the "First Special Service Force". It was a special trained unit and wore a Red arrowhead with "USA" and "CANADA" forming an acrostic(sp??). It did see action in Italy and at Anzio and was disbanded soon after that. Last year a read a good book that taught me about the orgins of the Ranger Battalions: i.e., 1st Ranger Battalion, 2nd Ranger Battalion, etc. It was a book about their leader Colonel Darby. I must have loaned the book out as I can't find it. But it related his career by telling how he organized the rangers as a copy of the British Commando units. The name "ranger" more closely exemplified the American military tradition as it associates with Roger's Rangers of the American Revolution. At Anzio, a Ranger Battalion made a night attack right when the Germans launched an armored attack and only 6 men of the 668 returned to the lines. That pretty much spelled the end of the unit. The only Ranger Battalion that saw success was the 6th Ranger Battalion. A portion of this unit made a raid behind Japanese lines in the Philippines to rescue 500 American POWs. They only lost something like 1 person. The story is told in the book "Ghost Soldiers" and in the movie "The Raid", based on the book. Hope this helps. Steve |
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earl375 |
Rangers | ||
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Posts: 21 (06/26/08 23:28:27) |
Hi Steve. Thank You for the info. My father in law had stated in the past that he had Ranger training in Cape Cod, Mass. . Patti showed me what a certificate
for Ranger training looked like but I have not showed it to him yet. He is ill and we had to put him in a Hospice Hospital the other day, so I am waiting to
show him on one of his better days when he is not so confused. My father in law also mentioned fighting in North Africa which he is credited for the Tunisian
Campaign on his DD214. He mentioned an incident ( with in a couple of weeks after arriving in North Africa ) where his Staff Sgt. was blown up removing a
landmine and He mentioned walking through Sicily, but really did not fight in Sicily. SGM Ron Graves sent me a message(on this board) with some web sites to
check out. The first web site listed, kind of described what my father in law had mentioned. That is what led me to believe that just maybe he was a Ranger for
a short period of time before entering Italy. Thanks again for your reply and info Steve. son in law of a T-Patcher Earl
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TexasIDson |
18th Century Ranger's origins | ||
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Posts: 14 (08/04/08 12:08:58) |
A very watchable and well done film supplying some sights of the FIRST Roger's Rangers is this French and Indian War (1754 - 1763) film LINK:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032851/ Stars Spencer Tracy as Major Rogers with Watler Brennan and a very youthful Robert Young. technicolor film made during the pre-WW2 years. There are few films about the French and Indian War (1754 - 1763) which is surprising. Given the rising solidity of Anglo-American relations in the late 1930s into World War II more films should have been made. NORTHWEST PASSAGE is a marvelous example of how to make an interesting historical film. Briefly, it is 1759, and Major Robert Rogers and his famous Rangers (probably America's first example of a special forces unit) are sent into territory in the hands of an enemy Indian group. The film shows all the problems of 18th Century forest fighting, with supply problems, ambushes, and personal problems. Rogers does not have to only worry about Indian attacks (off screen we hear of the massacre of part of his men who separated for security reasons to rendezvous at a later spot), but with starvation and madness (witness Addison Richards insane ranger). But the mission is accomplished, and one step brought forward to the successful completion of the war. |
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earl375 |
Rangers | ||
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Posts: 25 (08/07/08 11:39:28) |
texasidson, Thanks for the info. When I get a chance I will check it out. Thanks again. Earl |
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