Using the after-action reports of the 143rd regiment, I have been able to find some of the areas where my father fought in the Vosges area from November 1944 to 1945. There are map references in the After-action reports that would allow me to pin things down even closer, if I had copies of the military maps with those references. Does anyone know where I could get my hands on old maps with the references?
0 Kudo
Military Maps Of Voges
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 Unregistered(d) |
Military Maps Of Voges |
Lead | |
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Posts: 0 (10/19/00 00:20:34) |
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Unregistered(d) |
Maps | ||
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Posts: 0 (10/19/00 10:00:45) |
Hi John,
That's the whole problem, to find maps and overlays. These are hard, if not impossible to find. The only solution is to make your own gridsystem. You have to pinpoint the gridcoordinates on a modern map by marking villages that are mentioned. There are nice French maps available scale 1:25.000. Pieter (pieter.o@zonnet.nl) |
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Unregistered(d) |
maps of the Vosges | ||
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Posts: 0 (10/25/00 15:04:45) |
Maps are available at the National Archives, CollegePark, MD. It requires some time before you get thme, at least in the old days when they were still located in Suitland. I haven't bought maps since they were moved to this new location. I have some of the area and could possibly help you if I had reference numbers. I am an honorary member of the 36th division association and have published several books on the fighting in Alsace-Lorraine (French and English).
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Unregistered(d) |
Lise Books | ||
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Posts: 0 (11/01/00 22:51:32) |
Finding your post is quite exciting. I have been researching the route of a friend who fought with Co B, 242nd Inf Reg of the 42nd. Inf Div. WWII. Your name is very prominent in that research. I know of your connection with the 42nd via my research. In fact, I am buying your book thru Amazon.com. Maps are the most difficult to find. I have a fine modern map of France that is most useful but putting the locations of battles and other events is daunting. Please tell what books other than The War in No Alsaace might be.
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Unregistered(d) |
Military Maps and Lise Pommois | ||
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Posts: 0 (11/02/00 12:21:46) |
Lise, I'm very happy for your post. The Eisenhower Library in Abiline also has some very good maps of the Vosges with actual grid coordinates on the battle maps. I took one of the maps over to the national guard - the one depicting Selestat - and he showed me how you put a protractor on the map and you can see where they called in artillery at the vicinities of counterattacks etc. I copied the topographical map, but it did not come out as good as I would have liked. The swirls are too close together and the map came out too dark. But they do have excellent maps - one of the best is in the 103d division folder. They also have great maps and diagrams of the Col de St Marie area. And an excellent drawing of the German defenses. But for detail, clarity and order of battle, and the fact that the maps were hand-drawn you can't come close to your own maps that you drew in Lise Pommois' "Winter Storm, War in Northern Alsace." I really enjoyed your book.
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Unregistered(d) |
Military maps of Vosges | ||
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Posts: 0 (11/03/00 03:24:20) |
Dear Lise:
Thank you for your reply to my post. Thanks to the rest of you as well. I am particularly interested in detailed maps from the 1940's which would show terrain features etc. I am interested in the Sigolsheim area, because as near as I can determine my father's company: company "G", 2nd battalion, 143rd regiment was on Hill 351 when he was wounded on December 8, 1944. I recently visited this area and wondered where Hill 351 was in relation to the hill-top memorial to the US troops who fought in the area and to the French Military Cemetary there. Are either of the hill-tops with flags on them Hill 351? Another area of interest is the western edge of the Hagenau Forest: Mertzwiller, Mietesheim etc. I am also interested in the area around Bischwiller and Gries, where my dad saw heavy fighting against the German counter-attacks around January 20-21, 1945. Lise: I am also interested if you have written in any of your books about the fighting that took place in December for Selestat, and about the fighting in December around Sigolsheim, Riquewihr, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Hills 351 & 393 | ||
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Posts: 0 (11/06/00 17:42:13) |
Hi John,
Hill 351 is the hill with the flags, the monument and the French cemetery. Coming from Riquewihr hill 351 is on the left, 393 on the right. I have made two panoramic pictures of it. Will copy them for you if you like. To my knowledge 1st Bn 141st Inf. Regt. was the first unit which attacked hill 351 on December 9, 1944. The 141st Regimental reports state that the 2nd Bn was attached to the 143rd. It occupied the hill north of Kaysersberg on December 8. Co G of the 143rd was the 2nd Bn's left flank. This could have been hill 393. Later on the 2nd Bn 141st held hill 393. Our 36th Division re-enactment group will visit the area this month. Plans are to make a commemorative march from Riquewihr to Sigolsheim. Pieter |
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Unregistered(d) |
Thanks Pieter!!!! | ||
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Posts: 0 (11/07/00 01:02:11) |
Thanks so much for your responses to my post. I am very glad your reenactors will visit the area. Thanks again.
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Rufus Lester |
Map of Strasbourg showing the Kehl Rhine Bridge | ||
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Posts: 112 (11/14/00 13:51:37) |
Dear Lise, I would appreciate obtaining a map showing the Kehl Rhine Bridge and environ before it was blown on 6 December 1944. Even more important I would like to email a question to you. My email address is
gett636@gvtc.com. I briefly talked to you in 1991 at Oberhoffen when the 36th Division Battlefield Tour met you. I told you then that some of our 636th TD Bn was still in the Strasbourg, Gambsheim, Herrlisheim, until 4 January 45. The entire Reconnaissance Company worked with the Linden TF, 42nd ID and Herren TF, 70th ID running patrols from Strasbourg north. The rest of our battalion had been sent to the Vosges area. I have "Winter Storm" it's great, excellent research. You get around, John Shirley 3rd ID is my friend too. Rufus Lester Leggett |
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Unregistered(d) |
maps, Sigolsheim, Mertzwiller, gries etc... | ||
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Posts: 0 (11/19/00 11:56:37) |
Sorry I haven't replied sooner but I was in the US till November 7 and have been extremely busy ever since I came back. I am a school teacher and we sell chocolates and candies for a trip to England. I am the treasurer and spend hours adding up checks. Then I had to give a talk to French Army reserve officers last friday, which meant a lot of hard work. Though I have given many talks before, I usually talk to Americans and the presentation had to be edited to fit a French audience. But I am glad to say they were very interested and told me it was too short though I had exceeded the time limit.
Regarding your requests I have all the maps and can reproduce them. I have also done a lot of research into the fighting near Sigolsheim and all the other places mentioned. Unfortunately my other books are in French but I can do some translating and adapting. I also have the after-action reports etc... plus pictures. Just tell me how I can help you and keep reminding me of it. E-mail me, pommois@wanadoo.fr, I am more likely to look at my e-mail than at the 36th division site. Looking forward to hearing from you. Lise |
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Unregistered(d) |
42nd division | ||
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Posts: 0 (11/19/00 12:00:52) |
I am indeed very familiar with the Rainbow Division. I go to all their reunions and have become their historian for the Alsace area.
I have written a number of books but they are in French and they are all out of print. Those involving the Rainbow Division would be "Tempte dans les Vosges du Nord" (Winter Storm in the northern Vosges) and the battle of Hatten-Rittershoffen, plus part of a book on the fighting in the Haguenau area. Just tell me what you need and I'll see what I can do. I can't translate the whole thing but if you ask definite questions I feel confident I can answer some of them, if not all of them. Looking forward to hearing from you. Lise |
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